I attended a Monty Roberts Join-up Demonstration in Oklahoma City Thursday,
August 26th. When I read your original post, I assumed that you were
describing a normal rope halter nose band that he was yanking on. After
seeing the demo, it is clear that Monty Roberts is a "horse trainer", the
horses did what he wanted them to do, but in my opinion the mechanical aids
he uses remove him from the "horse wisperer" category and perhaps even from
the non-violent trainer category. The halter has a double rope fashioned
over the nose, attached to one side of the halter solidly , over the nose,
and then through a ring on the other side of the halter. The lead rope is
then attached to the mechanical halter. The result is a device that puts
pressure on the bridge of the nose according to the force of the horse
backing up or if it is not backing up then you can "jerk" the lead rope to
get the same effect. The head tossing and attitude of the horses definitely
indicate that this is not a "non-painful" process. These halters are for
sale at the demonstration, or through his web page for \$45.00. so it does
not seem to be his intent to hide the use. He also uses a "buckstopper",
another mechanical aid where a small rope is tied around the horses head
like a halter with the bottom string going around the gum above the teeth.
A small rope is then tied to the first at the poll with the other end tied
to the saddle, as the horse attempts to drop its head to buck, guess where
all the force goes. He says he has never had any permanent injuries, just a
purple (bruised?) mark that will go away in two or three days on the gum.
The bottom line in several of the demonstrations was to teach the horse to
not go backwards. The mechanical halter was definitely successful, sometimes
with a lot of rearing, especially when his assistant was working with a
young horse outside the round pen in preparation for trailer loading. The
"bucking " specimen(demo horse) fell heavily with the "buckstopper" in
place and a lot of fear from the dummy Mr. Roberts was getting ready to put
on its back. It was close to the fence and thankfully, the floundering did
not result in any apparent permanent injury. Again, to repeat, he is a
horse trainer, and he was successful in getting the horses to perform. He
is just not my cup of tea. Lara, I also do not want to offend but the
training methods and natural horsemanship are too important to all of us for
us not to discuss, not just the demonstrations. but where this trainer is
taking natural horsemanship.
I went to the Monty Roberts demonstration in Las Vegas, on 12/5/1998.
The following is what I observed:
The demonstration was from 2-4:15p.m. and he "started" two horses. He
will not use the word "break" horses. He believes strongly in "no more
violence" For thousands of years, horses have essentially been told by
humans, "you will do as I tell you, or I'll hurt you". As an aside, he
commented that his father believed in the same thing for horses and for
him. He went against what his father believed was right for horses and
his father hurt him. Bad, he said.
Roberts pointed out that "equus" is the horse's way of communication and
that it is a universal language that all horses understand. Human's can
use anatomical language. Negotiate, not dominate.
He uses a web style halter with a nosepiece made of two rope pieces that
the lead attaches to sideways (out one of the side holes), and is
adjustable by either the horse or you putting pressure on it, a slider.
He calls it a dually halter.
Although, I noticed that he did not have to use that on either of the two
horses he "started".
He commented that, "time is not important, making good horses is". "My
way is the best way for him today". He said, there are other ways, other
people and their methods work for them. He does not put anyone down, he
indicated that anyone who trains horses in a non-violent manner, he is a
fan of.
He started both the horses we saw to "join-up", "follow-up" and accept
their first saddle and rider in less than 30 minutes each. The first in
24 minutes and the second in 19.
I noticed, they were halter broke and used to humans before he got
started. But, he had the owners give a brief history of them and attest
they had never felt a saddle or had come into contact with him before.
The first horse even had it's mane trimmed!
Roberts pointed out that eye contact was important, using it or not (but
did not explain in this demo when or when not to), and shoulder use,
squared or slanted (again, he did say when to do what). I also noticed
that he turned his back on the horse at certain times to get the results
he wanted, but, he did not comment on this. You had to observe him
closely (maybe read the book).
Initially, he kept the horse moving in the 50' round pen by tossing the
end of a regular lunge line, occasionally, depending (I guess) on what he
wanted the horse to do, the line hit the horse, but, because the line is
soft, it does no harm.
I noticed that after working the horse for a short time, it would start
to come off the fence. Roberts pointed out that you look for the horse's
ear closest to you to be cocked toward you, for the horse to do some
licking and chewing and for it to start putting it's head lower. Roberts
said, this all indicated "it's asking permission" to come in and to stand
still. Roberts pointed out, that along with the line, which he
eventually did not have to use to keep the horse moving, he used his open
hand and waved his arm to keep the horse moving. He demonstrated that
after a little while, when he closed his hand and brought his arm down,
and in front of him, close to his body, the horse would stop. He
demonstrated this several times. Worked, every time!
He then would either cast his eyes down, slant his shoulder or turn
around and the horse would stop and come in. This, he called "join-up".
He then briefly rubs the horse on it's face, whithers and belly. Picks
up feet. Then, he walks away or in a different direction, the horses
would follow. This, he called "follow-up".
He then, without any further work, puts pad and english type saddle on
the horse. Girths up (gently, but firmly-horse's had no qualms), and
then attached lead (lunge line) to halter and moves this horse away to
experience the feel of a saddle on them. Some buck (about 65%, Roberts
said), some don't (about 35%).
After the horse runs about briefly, he "invites" it in (he doesn't really
explain how he does this, I take it, that it's different ways for
different horses, after it ceases being distracted by the saddle, it sees
Monty as being a "safe" place, so comes in??). Then, Roberts puts a
bridle on over the halter (snaffle bit, I guess it's not important which
type, as he did not comment), proceeds to attach long lines (lunge lines
and runs them through stirrups).
He then works the horse at walk and trot for him to get used to the bit
in his mouth, but exerts no pressure or direction at this time, the horse
just goes to the fence.
Roberts said that 95% of horses do not buck at this time. Then he stops
the horse (how exactly, was not mentioned), another rider comes in (not
Roberts), proceeds to spend about a minute rubbing the horse all over
(Roberts commented that before he discovered this, more of his horses
were bucking a little with the rider). He found it's important for a
horse to be "introduced" to the rider.
The rider puts his weight in the stirrup and leans over the horse.
Roberts leads the horse in a small circle, both directions. He points
out, that it's important for the horse to see the rider out of both eyes.
When Roberts feels the horse is ready, the rider puts his other leg
over.
Roberts, (holding the lead closely) leads the horse in a circle, and then
unsnaps the lead, flaps a little to get the horse to trot. All this with
absolutely no direction or pressure from the rider. Roberts said, you
want the horse's first ride to be a positive experience. (He later said,
you will do more of the same just for a short time with the horse for
four days, then you can start adding other directions).
Then, the rider gets down, untacks and the horse is put up. At no time,
was applause allowed. (Would distract or spook the horse?). Roberts
later demonstrated, after he crossed the round pen and was on the
opposite of the arena, he signaled applause, the horse ran off in a
frightened manner, but to Roberts as the "safety" zone.
After the first horse was done, there was a brief question & answer
period. It was asked, "what do you do if a horse nips?" Roberts said,
"never hand feed" and "never hit a horse on the nose". That teaches a
horse to be an even better nipper. He said "accidently kick the horse in
the shin" Not hard, but every time, pretty soon, the horse will learn not
to nip, even if a hand is offered.
Someone asked, what do you do if a horse cribs. Roberts answered, if
"join-up" is done well and the horse treated fairly (not kept in too
small an enclosure, not allowed to socialize etc.), then the problem will
be minimized.
Someone asked what should be done, if a horse refuses to load into a
trailer. Roberts said that if you use the dually halter, when the horse
bolts backward, it'll hit the end of the line, the halter will tighten on
his nose and he'll find release in coming forward. Do this several
times, using a shorter and shorter line and soon the horse will find no
use in backing (?).
Someone asked about a horse rearing a lot. Roberts said, that if
"join-up" was done well, that should help.v
Someone asked, "what about "sacking out". Roberts feels strongly that
violence of that type is "not necessary". Even if done gently, there's
no room in his method of "join-up" for this.
He commented about horses being "into pressure" animals and that they
have to learn (be trained) to move away from pressure. And to "take
pressure off" a horse when lunging it or whatever, you back-off or move
away.
Again, Roberts mentioned that food is not a good motivator for a horse.
It's ineffective. (?).
I feel, that Roberts carries a lot of "bagagge" around with him.
Mentioned several times was a refernce to "flukes". His training method
working again and again on different horses. He's up to about 10,500
"flukes".
Various comments like the above through out the demonstration lead me to
that conclusion.
Also, Roberts seems to not get on horses that he readies with his
technique. Due to his age (50ish) or his back surgery. (years of
football, riding etc.) Or what, I don't know. He always uses Jason
(whom, I've been told, is a professional bronc rider [???])
The demonstration was in a large tent, the round pen was set up with a
sand footing, it was well organized, there was some merchandise
available, there was plenty of parking, food was available, plenty of
port-a-potties were available etc. I felt, it was well worth the $25.00
fee. All auditing, of course. (I appreciated the tent, it was windy and
cold.)
Roberts also mentioned (in an aside, had nothing to do with the
presentation, and he made it very clear he did not get compensation at
all), that he felt Sundowner trailers were the best for transporting
horses. He said they were years ahead of the competion.
